I like how NT Wright explains this, in that we humans, having been given authority to rule over creation, create false gods by giving our attention to things that are less than God. Money, Sex, whatever. They have no power other than what we give them. That seems to fit with what you’re saying about evil beings are spirit without self, not created but still somehow here.
'Thirdly, they are not divine but neither are they creaturely. No wonder the prophet John illustrates them as locusts and scorpions and a quasi-human calvary.
How else do you depict an agency that is not creaturely? The devil and his minions— they are not creatures. They have neither horns nor pitchforks. They are not creatures. Because God did not make them. They originate in Nothingness. Thirdly, they are not divine but neither are they creaturely. No wonder the prophet John illustrates them as locusts and scorpions and a quasi-human calvary.
How else do you depict an agency that is not creaturely? The devil and his minions— they are not creatures. They have neither horns nor pitchforks. They are not creatures. Because God did not make them. They originate in Nothingness. '
Hard to reconcile with 'Creator of All things visible and invisible'. You might want to take another stab at that one. I mean, if you think that the Creeds or historic Christianity is worth holding on to. All that is, falls into the category of either Creator or creature. Wait, why am I bothering with the Creed? 'All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.' John 1:3
Yes, that is one way you could take the "invisible" but I'm definitely in line with historic Christianity in insisting that God did not create the demonic.
Really? The very prominence of the 'fallen angel' explanation of the diabolic, which is possible though difficult to support from scripture, theory would seem to disprove that this is historic Christianity.
If it exists, and is not the Creator it was created, else it is self-existent and therefore God. This is pretty first principle stuff unless you are arguing an eternal self-existent demonic, a true evil divinity. Surely you aren't suggesting Manicheism? The Thomists are against you. I can't imagine where you expect to get support for this position from. *edited to remove a comment that wasn't clear and not worth the effort to make clear*
I should say that the 'stars' of Revelation 12 drawn down by the dragon certainly give some support to the theory of demons as fallen angels and to their created nature but don't provide much detail about them. As for Isaiah 14 the Lucifer passage has always seemed to me to be entirely dealing with the king of Babylon I just don't see much about nonhuman entities there.(Calvin takes the same position.)
I like how NT Wright explains this, in that we humans, having been given authority to rule over creation, create false gods by giving our attention to things that are less than God. Money, Sex, whatever. They have no power other than what we give them. That seems to fit with what you’re saying about evil beings are spirit without self, not created but still somehow here.
'Thirdly, they are not divine but neither are they creaturely. No wonder the prophet John illustrates them as locusts and scorpions and a quasi-human calvary.
How else do you depict an agency that is not creaturely? The devil and his minions— they are not creatures. They have neither horns nor pitchforks. They are not creatures. Because God did not make them. They originate in Nothingness. Thirdly, they are not divine but neither are they creaturely. No wonder the prophet John illustrates them as locusts and scorpions and a quasi-human calvary.
How else do you depict an agency that is not creaturely? The devil and his minions— they are not creatures. They have neither horns nor pitchforks. They are not creatures. Because God did not make them. They originate in Nothingness. '
Hard to reconcile with 'Creator of All things visible and invisible'. You might want to take another stab at that one. I mean, if you think that the Creeds or historic Christianity is worth holding on to. All that is, falls into the category of either Creator or creature. Wait, why am I bothering with the Creed? 'All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.' John 1:3
Yes, that is one way you could take the "invisible" but I'm definitely in line with historic Christianity in insisting that God did not create the demonic.
Really? The very prominence of the 'fallen angel' explanation of the diabolic, which is possible though difficult to support from scripture, theory would seem to disprove that this is historic Christianity.
If it exists, and is not the Creator it was created, else it is self-existent and therefore God. This is pretty first principle stuff unless you are arguing an eternal self-existent demonic, a true evil divinity. Surely you aren't suggesting Manicheism? The Thomists are against you. I can't imagine where you expect to get support for this position from. *edited to remove a comment that wasn't clear and not worth the effort to make clear*
I should say that the 'stars' of Revelation 12 drawn down by the dragon certainly give some support to the theory of demons as fallen angels and to their created nature but don't provide much detail about them. As for Isaiah 14 the Lucifer passage has always seemed to me to be entirely dealing with the king of Babylon I just don't see much about nonhuman entities there.(Calvin takes the same position.)
This one left we weeping.