Cory, like my comment, I too am flawed at my core. My comment was not intended to correct your thinking, but I wrestle with this issue internally and took a chance on offering my immediate thoughts. Perhaps that was a mistake, as I don’t have your ability to express myself as well as many. Still, I am learning and in process. Thanks for responding.
I am still conflicted after reading this piece on war and Memorial Day. I appreciate the attempt to separate war from being God’s plan to being our last-ditch human response to what we see is unjust (in cases such as Ukraine’s plight). No, God is not a fan of war and I would go so far as to say that God is never the instigator of war (I am not a biblical literalist) -- we flawed humans do that for so many reasons. Nevertheless, so long as we are unable to grasp and put into practice God’s beloved community, and so long as we are motivated by greed and a lust for power over others, we will continue to justify the practice of war. But why should we try to make it seem okay by reframing war as a forgivable sin? Yes, Christ died for all and is able to forgive the most egregious sins of war, but war is still not what God desires of us.
I wish I had a better way to say this, but this world (all of us, including the church) are a long way off from beating the weapons of war into implements of peace.
I never jump into these social media pools of virtual debate, but maybe it is because it is Memorial Day and if I ever have the bully pulpit it is now. Ms Gibson, your well written comment is fundamentally flawed at its core. "But why should we try to make it seem okay by reframing war as a forgivable sin?". Your next sentence acknowledges that Christ died for all and is able to forgive even the most egregious sins. So what is your argument? That war should not exist? As a person with personal experience with that issue, which I suspect you do not share, I wholeheartedly agree. Good luck extracting original sin from the human species. If your contention is that there are sins beyond God's ability to forgive, then you and I will disagree on the good news Jason has revealed to me and literally saved my life.
I find this argument deeply bizarre. On the one hand, I am very grateful to hear patriotism called out for the idolatry it is, and (during a Memorial Day service, no less) war called out for the murder it is. But the idea of a serviceman positioning himself and his comrades in the place of Jesus, taking on themselves the sins of their nation---that's one I haven't heard before. Continuing to wear a uniform and draw a pension for what one openly admits is mortal sin I think is missing the point of the saving work of Christ, who also told us, "Go and sin no more." Is this "perseverance of the saints"?
If you believe that somehow I am claiming to take on the role of Jesus and bear the sins of all so they are FORGIVEN, then I don't even know where to start in responding to you. Christ committed no sin - a blameless sacrifice for the rest of us so all of our future sins are made clean by him. I have no such power. I am just as wretched of a sinner as you are. My sacrifice hadn't forgiven any thing you have done. All I have done is ensure you don't have another sin, and it's a big one, to add to your list when you stand before God. We'll both be forgiven, that I believe. But there will also be a reckoning and that is the sacrifice. You believe I should have not continued to serve in the Navy? Who would you rather have? A person like me who recognizes and struggles with this dilemma or the non-Christian (who is equally forgiven) that doesn't give a shit? "Go and sin no more?". How about trying on "He that is without sin cast the first stone.". You're a sinner just like me A.S. up until the day you die. God is going to forgive us both even though we both continue to sin. Be thankful that people like me have done what you won't, even though there isn't a choice not to. Oh, and the "draw a pension" bit. I'll let you have a discussion with my wife and children about what it's like to have their husband and father deployed in harm's way for months at a time and see if they deserve some compensation for that.
I'm sorry you think I was judging you. I think we'll have to disagree about the "choice not to" when it comes to our country's wars. But this is clearly a very tender subject for you, which I certainly understand. I continue to be troubled by the implications of the theological argument you're making here, but I was mistaken in thinking this was a venue for such discussion. My apologies for hurting you.
Cory, like my comment, I too am flawed at my core. My comment was not intended to correct your thinking, but I wrestle with this issue internally and took a chance on offering my immediate thoughts. Perhaps that was a mistake, as I don’t have your ability to express myself as well as many. Still, I am learning and in process. Thanks for responding.
I am still conflicted after reading this piece on war and Memorial Day. I appreciate the attempt to separate war from being God’s plan to being our last-ditch human response to what we see is unjust (in cases such as Ukraine’s plight). No, God is not a fan of war and I would go so far as to say that God is never the instigator of war (I am not a biblical literalist) -- we flawed humans do that for so many reasons. Nevertheless, so long as we are unable to grasp and put into practice God’s beloved community, and so long as we are motivated by greed and a lust for power over others, we will continue to justify the practice of war. But why should we try to make it seem okay by reframing war as a forgivable sin? Yes, Christ died for all and is able to forgive the most egregious sins of war, but war is still not what God desires of us.
I wish I had a better way to say this, but this world (all of us, including the church) are a long way off from beating the weapons of war into implements of peace.
I never jump into these social media pools of virtual debate, but maybe it is because it is Memorial Day and if I ever have the bully pulpit it is now. Ms Gibson, your well written comment is fundamentally flawed at its core. "But why should we try to make it seem okay by reframing war as a forgivable sin?". Your next sentence acknowledges that Christ died for all and is able to forgive even the most egregious sins. So what is your argument? That war should not exist? As a person with personal experience with that issue, which I suspect you do not share, I wholeheartedly agree. Good luck extracting original sin from the human species. If your contention is that there are sins beyond God's ability to forgive, then you and I will disagree on the good news Jason has revealed to me and literally saved my life.
I find this argument deeply bizarre. On the one hand, I am very grateful to hear patriotism called out for the idolatry it is, and (during a Memorial Day service, no less) war called out for the murder it is. But the idea of a serviceman positioning himself and his comrades in the place of Jesus, taking on themselves the sins of their nation---that's one I haven't heard before. Continuing to wear a uniform and draw a pension for what one openly admits is mortal sin I think is missing the point of the saving work of Christ, who also told us, "Go and sin no more." Is this "perseverance of the saints"?
A.S.,
If you believe that somehow I am claiming to take on the role of Jesus and bear the sins of all so they are FORGIVEN, then I don't even know where to start in responding to you. Christ committed no sin - a blameless sacrifice for the rest of us so all of our future sins are made clean by him. I have no such power. I am just as wretched of a sinner as you are. My sacrifice hadn't forgiven any thing you have done. All I have done is ensure you don't have another sin, and it's a big one, to add to your list when you stand before God. We'll both be forgiven, that I believe. But there will also be a reckoning and that is the sacrifice. You believe I should have not continued to serve in the Navy? Who would you rather have? A person like me who recognizes and struggles with this dilemma or the non-Christian (who is equally forgiven) that doesn't give a shit? "Go and sin no more?". How about trying on "He that is without sin cast the first stone.". You're a sinner just like me A.S. up until the day you die. God is going to forgive us both even though we both continue to sin. Be thankful that people like me have done what you won't, even though there isn't a choice not to. Oh, and the "draw a pension" bit. I'll let you have a discussion with my wife and children about what it's like to have their husband and father deployed in harm's way for months at a time and see if they deserve some compensation for that.
I'm sorry you think I was judging you. I think we'll have to disagree about the "choice not to" when it comes to our country's wars. But this is clearly a very tender subject for you, which I certainly understand. I continue to be troubled by the implications of the theological argument you're making here, but I was mistaken in thinking this was a venue for such discussion. My apologies for hurting you.
Well said